Lawrence & Allene Wisner Family History Interview

This is a transcription of a video interview from 2008 by Sheree Morrison for her son Bennett’s family history report for 3rd grade. The first part is Lawrence speaking, and then at the end is Allene.

Lawrence S Wisner
family ca1910

My grandfather was named Lawrence Smith (Wisner), his middle name was Smith, from Illinois. I have no idea why they came out to California, probably to get rich. Oregon and Washington was the land of money, ya know. I heard that my great grandfather, I don’t know what his first name was, but he left Illinois on a wagon train headed for Washington, and they never heard from him again. So they don’t know if Indians got him or whether he just failed to write.

[note: Lawrence B. Wisner's great grandfather was George A Wisner. George moved to central Washington around 1901 and died there in 1905. By then wagon trains were no longer in use. Lawrence S. Wisner, with wife and son Ray C. Wisner moved to the same area of central Washington, lived there for a few years, before moving to central California.]

Raymond C Wisner Family

When I was young I was picked on by a couple girls…my sisters. I was in the middle, Ruth was the youngest and Millie was the oldest. They would gang up on me all the time. That’s the reason I’m so short! We got along really good though I guess.

Millie and Lawrence

I was born down in Chowchilla, California in 1924. Then we went to Lindsey, CA. Then we went to North Sacramento, that’s where I was in the 1st grade. And then we went to West Point. We moved so much cause we had ants in out pants I guess! We were lookin’ for greener pastures I guess. My dad was a butcher. In Chowchilla I think he got involved in a slaughterhouse.

Hess Butcher Shop Chowchilla, CA
Ray C Wisner center in white coat

And then he got his own meat market, or was working in a meat market there in Lindsey. Then he went to North Sacramento and he had a market there or worked in a market. And then he got sick – he was going in and out of the cooler so much, and so we went to West Point, CA and got a job to herd goats on horseback. I was in the 1st grade and Millie was in the 3rd, and we had to walk I guess a good mile and a half to catch a station wagon (or bus) that came by, and we’d go and sit up on this rock and wait until this bus would come, and they’d take us about a mile. And the schoolhouse is still there, but it’s now turned into a house though, residential. But if we missed the bus, then we’d have to walk the rest of the way.

West Point Church

And that’s when my dad got saved, there in West Point. They would have missionaries come and have special meetings and stuff. Joe Kirk was the preacher for the little country church. My dad had been a good Methodist and he got to reading the New Testament when he was riding the horse there, chasin’ the goats, checking on the goats. And so my dad went over to Joe Kirk’s house, and knelt down by a chair in their kitchen and accepted Christ. My mom just came along, I guess he influenced her. We attended the church, but she never did make a statement when. She just always went along with my dad.

Then we went back to Lindsey, got a job, and we lived in a garage with all our stuff, and Millie don’t remember that. And he was earning money to go to Huntington Park, CA, where the Training School for Christian Workers was. And he graduated from there, as a preacher. Later, the school moved and is now Azusa Pacific University.

My dad helped develop the Evangelistic Tabernacle Church in Mt Shasta. On a summer break while attending school (1934), we went up to Mt Shasta and he worked in a Sunday School and helped organize it into a church. It started as a Sunday School by a man named Conner. My dad helped build the church building. They tore down a dance hall and used the lumber to build the church. As far as I know there’s never been anything built on the lot where the dance hall was. I was in 3rd grade. Then we went back to Huntington Park in the fall, and he finished his schooling.

After graduating in Huntington Park, we moved to Rail Road Flat, CA. He was a part of the American Sunday School Union. They were an organization that went around and built Sunday Schools in out of the ways places. And he organized the Sunday School there in Rail Road Flat into a church, and it’s quite a going church now. We had services in the schoolhouse. But they have since then built a new building out a ways there, and it’s going pretty good.

When I was in school we had a chapel time, and I heard a message, and I was just 10 years old, and it was about Daniel. So I was laying in bed, and I got to thinkin’ about that and so I went in to my mom, she was in the kitchen (we were living in the school house then) and I talked to her and we kneeled down to a chair and that’s where I accepted Christ, and it’s made a difference all along my life.

My dad was a night watchman at McCloud’s Saw Mill. He walked around with a punch key. He would go in and punch his timecard to prove that he had been there as he walked around the mill. He had a big clock that he wore.

And then from then, Millie graduated from 8th grade there in Rail Road Flat. And so my dad heard about this Christian school in El Monte, CA, called H.E.I. (Holiness Evangelistic Institute). We needed money to go down there, so my dad went into San Andreas and worked in the cement plant, and we were there for a little while.

Then we went to El Monte, and my dad took the job of dean of boys, there at HEI, and he taught school too I guess. That’s where Allene and me met. We were at school together, in the 7th or 8th grade or so. We took Spanish in the same class. Miss Avery was the teacher. Millie and Allene were in the same grade and became close friends before we even paid any attention to each other. He preached at Bethel Church on Elliot Street, that’s where we got married.

Lawrence Wisner's 8th grade class at HEI

While there at HEI, there was some people by the name of Mathes, that started this Sunday School in their house. And my dad went over and helped them organize it into a church.

From there my dad moved to east Los Angeles. I don’t know how he got the property but his parents passed away in Lodi, so he sold their house for $900. He was looking around for a house to move to. Then the war came and he didn’t settle on a house so he went to east Los Angeles and got reclaimed lumber (that’s where they would take old beams and saw them and make boards) and he built a church there. And I think it’s a Mexican church now, I heard. And he was there quite a spell.

From there he went back to Mt Shasta and that’s where he helped developed it into a church. And that’s where he retired too.



The Military
We were drafted and we were in for the end of the war, plus 6 months. I had to register when I was 18 years old, and 6 months later I was in the military. They sent me my draft notice. Everybody was anxious to go then, there wasn’t all of the wrangling and stuff that there is now. In January (1942) there were about 11 people that I knew, they got their draft notices and I didn’t. And so in February I got mine. And these 11 people all went to a different place. They went all they way from Maine to Florida to down in Texas, and I was kinda anxious to go cause I can get outa California, cause we (our family) went from one end to the other and couldn’t get out. So they drafted me and they took me to Riverside. So the basic was there, and for our advanced training we went out to Barstow and back. We were in what they call the coast artillery. These were ground mounts, 50 caliber on a post. And when we’d move we’d have to break it all down and put it in the trucks. But then somebody got the idea well putting these guns on a half-track. And so we found out later we were an experimental outfit to see if it would work. And so we travelled from Riverside out to Barstow out in the desert out there, and back and forth. And it was very successful actually. We went through the coast artillery and went through our basic and when they changed us over to half-track we went through basic training again. That’s probably one factor is because we was as accurate as we were.

I was in the service a year when we got married. I came home on the last furlough and got married, before going overseas. The reason I wanted to was because the government would give the wives benefits, and I think it was all of $10 a month.

We were in the Sur Valley, protecting the 26th infantry, and they lost about 75% of their division. So they were sending these new recruits in, and everything was kinda quiet, so they said we’ll send you back to Metz, France, and we’ll send these new recruits over there. And they put them through basic training again, to give them some training.

I got my feet not frostbitted, but we had to wear leather shoes for so long, no place to dry them out, we just wore wet shoes, so my feet were what they call trench foot. I had a big blister on my heel, it was about the size of a quarter. And I had walked (and I still do) on the ball of my foot, on the toes. It got so painful that I was just standing on my toes. And I’s standing by the kitchen range cookin’ breakfast, the Lieutenant says “Wisner, does your feet hurt that bad?” and I says they sure do! And he says why don’t we go to the hospital and they can see what they can do for you. So I went in and the doctor took a tweezer and he pulled the skin up and sliced it, and made a V-shape and let the blood out, cause it was inverted see, it wasn’t sticking out, it was into my heel.

I was there for a couple of days and the Bulge broke out, and they (my outfit) got orders to go and fight up there. And so they got orders to come over to get me to take me back in there. We were sittin’ in the office of this hospital, kind of a waiting room, and I says I’d like to go back to the outfit, but I don’t know where they are. And they says well you’ve got all of your papers right in your lap so if you left nobody would know anything about it. So I guess it was a couple hours and then they loaded us into a truck and took me into a field hospital. Then they came over to take me back to the outfit, but they didn’t know where I was, and that’s the day the Bulge broke out, and of course we (our outfit) was right up there on the front line into Belgium. And so I know the folks were at home prayin’ for us, and got me outa there. 

Feb. 1945, after returning
to his outfit

And from then I went from the field hospital, and into a hospital in Paris, then they loaded me up onto a train (all because of trench foot. I couldn’t walk on it, and I was putting salve on it), and then took me back into Normandy to another field hospital. They said your next stop would be back in England and I says “I don’t want to cross that English Channel again!” So they said to only other option you have is to go back to your outfit, and I said ok I’ll take that. So they found out where the outfit was and they loaded me in a 2 and a half-ton truck and got me up into the Metz hospital again. And there was snow on the ground. They issued us rifles. And they took us out to shoot the rifles, laid us all down in the snow, we was just out of the hospital. I stayed there for 3 or 4 days and they found somebody that knew where the outfit was. So I went and got in a Jeep and got to the outfit. But I’m sure the folks’ prayer was what cleared me out of the Battle of the Bulge.

Post War Jobs
I put in Wisner Rd. in Mt Shasta. In Mt Shasta, we chopped the brush. We were a good half a mile off the main road. We were driving on the dirt, and built our little house and garage house. Then I went to the county and I told them that we need to make a county road out there. And so he got a paper and wrote it out. It went past our house and up to Millie’s and tied back into the other road, Pine Grove I think. So he says what will we name this street? I said I don’t know. He says “what about Wisner Rd?” I says “well, OK.” That bothered my mother. She said “why did you call it a road? It could have been an avenue or boulevard or anything!”

When we got out of the military they gave us the GI bill, to subsidize our wages. And so I took that up. And I got $90 a month for that. I worked as a plumber. I hired on to a plumber to work for him as an apprentice. And I got just about that much from the plumbing too. The plumbing was kinda slowing down, it was wintertime, and there was an opening at the school. The plumbing union out of Redding wanted to send me to Susanville and give me journeyman’s wages. But our kids were just getting started so I says no I think I won’t so I took the school job. Then I worked as a school supervisor, in charge of the cleanin’ and the maintenance. And stayed there for 12 years.

We lived there for a long time. I got it just about where I wanted it, ya know fixin’ things up, and then we sold it and Lorene graduated from High School and Ray was finishing up his sophomore year, and I had a chance to come and work down in Carmichael. A fellow that I knew had got me in.  So in ’64 I started working at the school district. We rented the first year that we were down here in Carmichael, and we built this house. This is where we’ve been ever since. Now were stuck with a house and were gonna have to turn it over to you kids and wonder what you’re gonna do with it!

Allene Wisner

Allene Orrell, age 4

My name is Jennie Allene Orrell. I don’t know why I go by Allene, that’s just the way it was done. That’s just what the family always called me.

I was 4 when I became a Christian. I wasn’t really old enough to go to school. My mother wanted me to learn how to read and so she spoke to the teacher that was teaching at the school if she would teach me to read. They had a chapel upstairs and that’s where we would go to church. I remember this time, as far as I can remember I was the only one that went forward. And I can remember the spot at the altar, and the preacher prayed with me. And after the service was over with he took me down into the dining hall, they boarded some students there too, and they had this long dining hall and kitchen, and in the pantry they had these peanuts in the shell, and he took me down there and got me a handful of those (chuckle chuckle). The name of the school was Old Paths.

The Orrell siblings: Edgar, Elvie, John and Allene

That place raised broom horn(?), and they manufactured brooms there. We were there until I was I think 13, and then we moved to El Monte.

Ruth, Millie, Allene 

We moved from Arkansas out to California and they stopped along the way you know. My dad would work a while, anyway it wasn’t a rush trip or anything. Our dad had took us to this school he had heard of, a Christian School there in El Monte, called HEI. That’s where we met. Larry’s sister (Millie) was in the same grade I was, I was in 8th grade. So we were real close friends, the four years we were there.

My sister (Elvie), she was the oldest, she went to what used to be Beulah College, down in southern California. The rest of us went to this school (HEI), but my brothers were enough older than me. They were gone by the time I went through.

New Year's Eve Love

I'm sure this isn't where their story began, but it feels like this is about the time that my wife's great grandparents, Raymond C. Wisner and Beatrice Hawver, started to get serious.

In 1918, Ray was 18 years old and Bea was 17. Ray and his parents moved to California from Illinois around 1910. They started off in the Lodi area and then homesteaded in the foothills near San Andreas. Here is a picture of the Wisner Homestead.


Another thing that I'm not quite sure on is the timeline of when they moved from Lodi up to San Andreas. I think they might have gone back and forth a couple times? Or maybe they still had a house in Lodi and San Andreas was their ranch?

When they moved to the homestead, they must have made some new friends. Maybe with neighbors, or maybe at church? I'm not completely sure that they were going to church at the time. Anyway, some of those friends to the Wisners, were the Hawvers. The Hawvers had lived in the area since around 1904. They sent this nice note to the Wisners, inviting them over for a New Years celebration.

Mr. & Mrs. Wisner,

You are invited to gather at the Canadian Valley farm to participate in a joint celebration, first enjoying yourself and to bid farewell to 1918 and welcome 1919. Second to bid farewell to our beloved neighbors Fishers. Also congratulate Miss Beatrice Hawver on successfully reaching the age of 18. Come early in the afternoon of Tuesday Dec 31.

B.M. Hawver

The picture below is from around 1918, of the Benjamin Hawver family, at their home in Calaveras County. Ben had lost his wife Magdalena in 1917, so it was just him and his 5 kids, Beatrice (17), Ruth (14), Gus (8), Judy (4), and Edith "Bobby" (3).

I came across another picture, that is the Hawvers with their neighbors. I'm wondering if these are the neighbors that they are saying goodbye to on New Years? The Fishers? It looks like everyone is wearing the same clothes as in the picture above.


So apparently, that get together on New Years was a great time for everyone, both young and old. A few days later, Ray wrote a letter to Bea, telling her lots things, including how his parents had a good time, his career goals, and also how much he likes her. Below is a transcription of that letter.


Jan 4, 1919

My Dear Friend:
I will write you a few lines to let you know that I arrived safely and to make a good beginning on my promise.

I am awfully lonesome just now. Have been just listening to a Victrola and you know that usually makes me sad and lonely. One of the pieces we played was " I'm sorry I made you cry." I think that's one of the prettiest songs I've heard for a long time. I can see you now, in my mind's eye, that afternoon after your father came home. I know how your heart must have ached, but you stood it all so bravely. The sight of those tears made me feel like crying myself.

I wouldn't make you mad for anything so I'll try not to write any more silly stuff in this letter anyway.

I had a long, slow and tiresome trip down here. I had rather rode a good horse. I got here at about 6:00 PM. I was awful cold then and is yet and has been for the last two or three weeks. I got my supper at the "Coffee Club" and then went and found a place where I could get board and room for $7 a week in advance so I paid for it last night & today. But I thought I could do better than that so today I russled around and found this place. I think I told you something of them. The people who live here I mean. The folks of those two boys whose pictures I showed you. I sleep in the attic with the boys. I had rather have a room of my own but we can't always have just what we want. I'm just like one one of the family here. I play the Victrola & piano whenever I feel like it. I pay $5.25 a week & my washing won't be over 50¢ a week. 



Jan 6, 1919.
Well, I started this letter and company came, so I didn't get to finish it. And yesterday I helped these people trim up some brush & in the afternoon we took an auto ride, they have a Ford. In the evening I took a little joyride with one of the boys. It was some ride too, believe me I told him I didn't want to "go west" just yet. I don't either. I feel that I have a great deal more to live for since I spent that last night & day with you. It seemed to me that we had a kind of understanding between us that last night when we said good-bye. I know I understand you better than I ever did before, and it only makes my friendship grow truer and tenderer. I wish I could be with you more, but I suppose you don't. At least that is the impression I got from what Percy said about you a Danie that afternoon when I left San Andreas. I was the happiest person on earth, in spite of leaving everything behind, until I saw him, and then most of my doubts came back again. I surely hope there's nothing in it.

I hope all this doesn't make you mad. I am trying to write with the Victrola going. It's a pretty hard thing to do.

I went to work today. It seems kind of good to be back in the mill again. I may go into the butcher business. It's harder work and longer hrs. but more chance for rapid advancement. I could have gotten into the market up there if I had known of it, is what started me to thinking of it.

You wouldn't have any objections to a fellow who was a butcher would you? Please answer this. It may make a lot of difference in my plans. It would be easy to write if I knew how I stand, with you. If I could only be sure you cared. I wish I could see you and talk it all over with you. Maybe you think I am too young. I know I am awful thoughtless and babyish sometimes. I hope to outgrow that though. I out growed an awful lot of it that last day with you. Life seems so much more serious now.

I remember you saying you wanted to knit your father a sweater. I asked mother to knit me one but she thinks she can't. Would you knit me one if I sent you the yarn? The yarn costs about $3. I would love to have something like that made by your hands.

I don't believe anything has done the folks so much good, as that little New Year party, since they have been up there. It all started by you & Ruth & Maurice coming over that Sunday. It has all put a lot of life back in her. She loves Ruth and Maurice but she more than loves you (if that is possible). I don't give her any credit for that though, I don't see how anybody could help it. That makes me worry sometimes too. Mother said you were awful sweet and pretty & she didn't blame me for liking you, but thought I had good judgement. She said I looked awfully happy that night. I couldn't help it, I don't remember of ever being happier. Well when you get this read I suppose you'll think you've read enough for once. If it makes you mad just tell me and I'll try not to let it happen again.

Yours forever,
Ray

P.S. This is an awful messy letter but I haven't time to copy it so please excuse this time. Please write right away & please don't be angry with me. You know I'm lonesome. If you didn't get my card my address is: 505 Hilborne Street. Lodi, Calif.
Please write. I gave up going on another joy ride tonight to finish this. Yours ever, Ray.

William Wisner's Obituary

I had requested some lookups at the Waukegan Public Library in Illinois, where the Wisner family lived the the second half of the 1800s. I had requested to see if they could find some birth mentions in the local newspaper, and just because, I also asked for an obit. They couldn't find any birth announcements, but did find the obit! It was for William Wisner, and although it was only 2 lines long, it was still significant. They sent me the clipped image, and it was poor quality, but you could still read:

 WISNER - Died at Avon, Ill., Nov. 25th 1877, of old age, William Wisner, aged 94 years and 8 months. He passed away like going to sleep.

The newspaper was the Waukegan Weekly Gazette, from Saturday December 8, 1877. It was an important find because death date for William that I had was August 25th, instead of November.

It is also interesting here that they give his age in years and months. I had seen a few different dates for his birth. The one that I thought was most correct was one that was listed in William's own Bible records, that someone was so kind to send me copies of. Here is a transcription of those records. It says he was born March 27, 1783, which is 94 years and 8 months from when he died, so everything lines up.

After looking at the transcription again, it looks like in the Bible records it also mentions William's death date as November instead of August, so again it's another confirmation that November is the correct date.

Wordless Wednesday - Wisners in the 80's

Mother's Day 2014 - 4 Generations

Elva Charlotte (Swanson) Earls (b. 1916)
Lillian Bernice (Earls) Wisner (b. 1948)
Sandee Denise (Wisner) Broersma (b. 1975)
Natalie Kate Broersma (b. 2005)

Wordless Wednesday - Ray C Wisner at 17

Four Generation Friday - Grandma Wisner

Beatrice Marie (Hawver) Wisner (1901-1992)
Lawrence Wisner (1924-2013)
Raymond Wisner (b. 1948)
Sandee (Wisner) Broersma (b. 1975)

Dead Wisner Children

This fall, I came across a cache of pictures that I didn't know existed of my wife's family. So not only was it awesome to find pictures that I didn't know existed, but also within the pictures was some more info that I didn't have. Like pictures of children that had died young, and had the unfortunate timing of being born and dying in between the 10 year censuses, making it more difficult to find info on them. I know that child deaths were more common as you go back 100 years or more, but when you come across pictures of children that died, it makes them a little more real.

George Albert Wisner (1829-1905) and Julia Ann (Barto)(1843-1924) had 4 children that we know of: May Ellen, Lawrence Smith, Mattie Irene and Guy Clifford. Based on the dates when George and Julia's children were born, they may have had some other children that died. However it's the children that lived and their families that I have pictures of, and now have knowledge of previously unknown children.

So first, I know the most about the Lawrence Smith Wisner family (my wife's great great grandparents). Here is their portrait as I had come to know their family: Lawrence, Martha (Morey) and their son Raymond.


They had another son that I had discovered had died when he was 3 years old. In the box of pictures I found one of him and it may be the only one that exists. His name was Frank Morey Wisner and he died in 1906 at the age of 3. Here are the 2 brothers together:


Lawrence's older sister May Ellen Wisner married Andrew T Jackson. I knew that they had 3 children: George Elvin, Herbert Andrew and May, but on the back of this family portrait it shows the names of the children in the picture, but one I hadn't seen before: James M.


This photo was dated 1908. May was born around 1909. So James was born around 1904 and died between when this photo was taken in 1908 and 1910 when the census was. Here is another photo of James when he was a year old.


The younger sister of Lawrence and May was Mattie Irene Wisner. It looks like she was called Aunt Irene based on writing on photos. She married Charles Bonner Anderson and had 3 children: Florence, and twins Frank and Laura. Here is the portrait of the family that I have, and it's missing Florence:


Florence was born in 1898 and died in 1902. Here is a picture that I now have of her:


Now May, Lawrence and Irene had another brother named Guy, and he never married to my knowledge. Few pictures of him exist and so it was nice to find a couple with him in them. This is Lawrence and Guy together (Guy is standing):


So I guess the greater point that I discovered is the fact that the 3 families of Lawrence, May and Irene all lost 1 child in each of their families sometime during 1905-1910. Then add to that that their dad George Wisner died in 1905. That's just a whole lot of death happening in a few short years. No one is currently living who would remember these children, but if it wasn't for these few photos in a small box that were buried in a closet and forgotten, it's almost as if these children never existed.

As for Guy, he died in 1954 at the age of 74. My father in law remembers him, and I'm sure there are more his age and older that have memories too, but since Guy never married he didn't have a family legacy to pass down. I was thinking on that and realized that he is also almost like a child that died, with no descendants to pass on his name and no blood line to show that he existed. I haven't even been able to find were he was buried.

In the end though, will it matter if any of us have lived? After death will we remember life? I kinda think that in heaven, most things of earth won't matter and there will only be happiness.

Genealogy Highlights of 2013

This year, I made some good headway, genealogically speaking. On my wife's side I found a couple caches of pictures and documents that revealed new information. Unfortunately some of these discoveries were made as a result her grandparents passing away. I wish we had asked them just a few more questions about their history, before we were no longer able.


Also this year I got to connect with a long sort-of-lost relative on my wife's side. She is my wife's grandma's cousin, and we didn't know who she was, or that she lived 25 minutes from our house! Not only that but she has been doing genealogy for many years and has lots of great info.


Also this year we got to celebrate my wife's great aunt's 90th birthday. She is still going strong. We have been able to visit with her a few times this year and also as a result have came across a treasure trove of old pictures that we had never seen before, and that revealed new information.


One big highlight for my side of the family was being able to visit the Netherlands with my dad. We drove through just about every town we could that we had ancestors from.


In one of those towns, in the church tower, was a dedication to a Broersma that laid the first brick. We haven't been able to connect this Broersma to our direct line yet, but it certainly was exciting to see the possibility since our family live in the area.


Also while visiting the Netherlands, I got to visit with relatives and get more family stories and pictures to bring back with us. One of the visits was with our cousin that is one of the only living people in the world that has met my great great grandpa Broersma, and had some stories of him and what he was like.


With some new information that he gave us, we were able to drive to another town and find the exact spot where a picture of my great great grandpa Broersma was taken.


Overall it's been a great year that's has expanded our knowledge of our family. I hope to have more great finds in 2014.